Présentateur
Hey everyone. Welcome to another deep dive. We’re heading to 19 century France.
Présentatrice
Oh, France.
Présentateur
Yeah, specifically Lyon. You know the silk capital.
Présentatrice
Yes, of course. The silk.
Présentateur
So we’re going to use the story of this guy, Claude Joseph Bonnet.
Présentatrice
OK.
Présentateur
He was a really successful silk manufacturer.
Présentatrice
Interesting.
Présentateur
And we’ll kind of see how his life intersects with like, all these huge changes that were going on at the time.
Présentatrice
Yeah, like the industrial revolution and.
Présentateur
Exactly like worker uprisings. And yeah, the rise of factories. You know, all that stuff.
Présentatrice
It’s amazing how you can look at one person’s life and see all these global shifts happening right there.
Présentateur
Right, like a magnifying glass or something?
Présentatrice
Exactly. And our main source for this deep dive is this chapter called Masters and Workers.
Présentateur
Yeah, yeah, it’s like packed with info about bonnet.
Présentatrice
OK.
Présentateur
His business, his relationship with his workers, and he even gets into how he handled these, like super intense worker uprisings.
Présentatrice
Wow.
Présentateur
Seriously, imagine this in 1846. Bonnet had 1100 weavers. Yeah, working for him in Lyon alone.
Présentatrice
Wow, that’s a lot of people.
Présentateur
I know. And there were all these home based weavers called canuts.
Présentatrice
Canuts. Yeah, it is.
Présentateur
Yeah. It’s a cool name, right?
Présentatrice
And that just shows how central this whole home based system was to the silk industry there.
Présentateur
Right. But it was also like right on the cusp of changing to factories like a total transformation.
Présentatrice
Yeah. And Bonnet was right there in the. Of it all.
Présentateur
Yeah. And to make things even more interesting, his career. Kind of coincides with two major worker uprisings in Lyon. 
Présentatrice
Oh wow
Présentateur
1831, and then again in 1834, so you like really feel the tension building as you read about this period?
Présentatrice
OK. I bet you know those uprisings weren’t just random events, though.
Présentateur
Yeah. What do you mean?
Présentatrice
Like there were deep economic and social problems driving them.
Présentateur
Oh, OK.
Présentatrice
You have to imagine these workers fighting for basic stuff like a minimum wage, and they weren’t even allowed to form unions legally.
Présentateur
WoW.
Présentatrice
Then on top of that, you’ve got accusations of manufacturers stealing silk from the worker. [Note : ceci est un contresens total]
Présentateur
So there was like 0 trust.
Présentatrice
Exactly. And then the gap between how much the employers were making compared to the workers.
Présentateur
Oh yeah, I bet that didn’t help
Présentatrice
Help not at. It was like a powder cake waiting to explode.
Présentateur
Wow. So the source material really gets into the events leading up to that first uprising in 1831.
Présentatrice
OK.
Présentateur
Like especially these meetings they had. Yeah, between the workers and the employers, they were trying to set a minimum wage.
Présentatrice
Meetings. Oh, OK. Oh, so like negotiations.
Présentateur
Exactly. And guess what, Bonnet was there.
Présentatrice
Really.
Présentateur
Yeah. And in the end, he refused to sign the agreement.
Présentatrice
That’s interesting. What do you think was going through his mind?
Présentateur
I don’t know.  It seems like a really tough spot to be in, like on the one hand, you have these workers barely scraping by, but on the other hand, Bonnet had to think about his business too.
Présentatrice
Yeah.
Présentateur
Right.
Présentatrice
True. And with all the pressure on the silk industry at the time.
Présentateur
Yeah. So what do you think was most important to him in that moment?
Présentatrice
Well, I’m sure profit was a big factor. Yeah, but he might have also been thinking about the precedent it would set
Présentateur
What do you mean?
Présentatrice
Like if he gave in to the workers demands this time, what would stop them from asking for more later.
Présentateur
Hmm, that’s a good point.
Présentatrice
You have to remember back then, employers held most of the power.
Présentateur
Right. O anyway, whatever his reasons were. That 1831 uprising was a total mess. Workers took over the city for a bit.
Présentatrice
Oh really? Oh wow.
Présentateur
The government had to step. And it ended pretty brutally.
Présentatrice
That’s intense ! It’s a good reminder of how imbalanced things were back then.
Présentateur
Definitely. And it’s crazy how history can be spun. You know.
Présentatrice
Yeah.
Présentateur
Source actually has this account that makes bonnet look like a hero for standing up to what they call the sovereign people.
Présentatrice
A hero. Oh, come on.
Présentateur
I know, right, It’s so obviously biased. Probably meant to make him look good.
Présentatrice
You always have to consider who’s telling the story and why.
Présentateur
Exactly. Now, after that 1831 uprising, we start to see worker associations popping up and mutualised societies too.
Présentatrice
Interesting.
Présentateur
They were really smart about it though.
Présentatrice
How so?
Présentateur
There were these laws against unions. But they found ways to work around them.
Présentatrice
Clever, yeah.
Présentateur
And they started putting pressure on employers to pay better wages.
Présentatrice
Makes sense.
Présentateur
You could even say they were part of what led to that even bigger uprising in 1834.
Présentatrice
Oh yeah, that one was bad.
Présentateur
Yeah, the source doesn’t hold back on the details either.
Présentatrice
Like how bad was it?
Présentateur
Intense fighting. The authorities came down hard. It was rough. And here’s something I found really interesting.
Présentatrice
What’s that?
Présentateur
Bonnet actually testified against one of the workers who was involved in the 1834 uprising.
Présentatrice
Oh. So he definitely sided with the employers.
Présentateur
Yeah, it shows where his loyalties were, but it’s also interesting because the source talks about how everyone was really into economic liberalism during this time. And it points out this total hypocrisy.
Présentatrice
What do you mean?
Présentateur
Like these manufacturers, they’d use these liberal ideas to justify not giving workers any rights.
Présentatrice
Yeah.
Présentateur
But then they turned around and asked for government help when it benefited them.
Présentatrice
So convenient.
Présentateur
I know. It’s like they picked and chose which parts of the ideology they liked.
Présentatrice
It happens all the time.
Présentateur
But then you read this story from a letter Bonnet wrote to his father around 1814.
Présentatrice
OK.
Présentateur
And he sounds genuinely concerned about his workers.
Présentatrice
Really.
Présentateur
Yeah, times were tough. And he actually offered to pay them in potatoes instead of wages.
Présentatrice
Potatoes.
Présentateur
Yeah, because food was more important than money at that point. [Note : l’utilisation d’un fait de 1814 pour illustrer une situation de 1831 est contestable]
Présentatrice
WoW
Présentateur
It kinda makes you feel for him a little bit, but it also makes you wonder, was he really trying to help or was it just a smart business move?
Présentatrice
That’s a tough one. Was it compassion or just pragmatism?
Présentateur
Exactly. It’s hard to know for sure.
Présentatrice
Yeah.
Présentateur
And then Fast forward to 1848 and things get crazy again.
Présentatrice
What happened?
Présentateur
These religious workshops.
Présentatrice
Workshops ?
Présentateur
Yeah, they were called Providences, and the workers were furious because they were driving down wages.
Présentatrice
Oh I bet.
Présentateur
They even threatened Bonnet’s factory in Jujurieux.
Présentatrice
Seriously.
Présentateur
Yeah. And there’s this crazy story, like local legend in Jujurieux that Bonnet had to escape Lyon hidden inside a barrel.
Présentatrice
Wait, what ? A barrel?
Présentateur
I know, right? It sounds insane.
Présentatrice
Yeah, it does.
Présentateur
But it shows how scared employers were at the time.
Présentatrice
Yeah, I can imagine.
Présentateur
Like things must have been super tense for that story to even exist.
Présentatrice
Absolutely. Then there’s this whole Bonnet looms thing.
Présentateur
What’s that ?
Présentatrice
So workers destroyed a bunch of equipment ’cause they thought it was going to Bonnet’s factory in Jujurieux.
Présentateur
So they were trying to sabotage him?
Présentatrice
Yeah, but get this, it’s all misunderstanding.
Présentateur
Oh way
Présentatrice
Yeah, the equipment wasn’t even his.
Présentateur
Wow.
Présentatrice
It just shows how much anxiety there was about competition from those rural looms.
Présentateur
Yeah, they were on edge.
Présentatrice
Big time and it’s interesting how misinformation can play such a big role in these conflicts
Présentateur
Right. And that’s something that’s still relevant today.
Présentatrice
Totally. So to figure out what was really going on, a group of radical workers called the Voracious.
Présentateur
The Voracious ?
Présentatrice
Yeah, they decided to go to Bonnet’s factory in Jujurieux.
Présentateur
Oh, so they could see for themselves.
Présentatrice
Exactly. And guess what?
Présentateur
Yeah.
Présentatrice
They had to admit it wasn’t nearly as big as they thought.
Présentateur
Oh, so they’ve blown it out of proportion.
Présentatrice
Yeah. Basically. But that rural competition thing that wasn’t going away anytime soon.
Présentateur
How bad did it get?
Présentatrice
By 1860, there were over twice as many silk looms outside Lyon as inside.
Présentateur
Wow . That must have been tough for the Lyon workers.
Présentatrice
It was. They were seeing their jobs disappear.
Présentateur
Yeah, I can imagine.
Présentatrice
The source even has this quote from a worker poster from 1866.
Présentateur
OK.
Présentatrice
And they call Bonnet the greatest villain for setting up looms in rural areas.
Présentateur
Wow. It’s like they felt betrayed by him.
Présentatrice
Totally, especially after he’d tried to help them in the past. [note : ceci est un raccourci proche du contresens]
Présentateur
Right. But then again you have to consider the pressure Bonnet was under too.
Présentatrice
Yeah, of course.
Présentateur
He was trying to run a business.
Présentatrice
Exactly. It’s complicated. You can see both sides.
Présentateur
Yeah, for sure. Not a simple good guy, bad guy situation.
Présentatrice
Nope, just a whole mess of competing interests and fears.
Présentateur
Right. And that’s history for. It really shows how everything was connected, you know, like one decision could have these huge ripple effects.
Présentatrice
Yeah. Totally. And the source actually mentions this attempt to like find a compromise.
Présentateur
Oh really?
Présentatrice
Yeah. In 1881, they formed this credit society, and Bonnet’s grandsons helped fund it.
Présentateur
Oh. Interesting. What was it for?
Présentatrice
It was supposed to support those small weaving workshops in Lyon.
Présentateur
Oh, so like, try to keep that traditional way of life going.
Présentatrice
Exactly. But it was kind of like trying to hold back a flood.
Présentateur
Oh, so it didn’t really work.
Présentatrice
No. The industry was changing too fast.
Présentateur
So what happened to those smaller workshops?
Présentatrice
A lot of them just disappeared.
Présentateur
Oh wow.
Présentatrice
It was a tough time. But then you start to see these boarding factories popping up.
Présentateur
Boarding. What are those?
Présentatrice
So basically it was like a big building where workers would live and work on the same place.
Présentateur
Oh, interesting.
Présentatrice
Yeah, Bonnet’s grandsons actually started one, and there was another one run by someone close to the family. [Note : c’est vrai mais il manque du contexte pour que cela fasse sens.]
Présentateur
So it was like a mix of the old and the new.
Présentatrice
Right, like trying to hold on to some of that traditional craft, but also adapting to the factory system.
Présentateur
But what was it like for the workers?
Présentatrice
Well, it’s hard to know for sure without hearing their side of the story. But I imagine it was a mixed bag.
Présentateur
Yeah, like some good, some bad.
Présentatrice
Exactly. Some might have liked the stability and the support like having housing and medical care provided, but others might have felt trapped or controlled.
Présentateur
Yeah, their whole life was tied to the factory.
Présentatrice
Exactly. And you know, it’s important to remember that the worker wasn’t just one type of person.
Présentateur
Yeah. Right. Everyone had their own experiences, yeah.
Présentatrice
Totally. And it’s interesting how the image of Croix-Rousse started to change around this time.
Présentateur
Croix-Rousse ?
Présentatrice
Yeah, you know that district in Lyon, where all the weavers were.
Présentateur
Uh.
Présentatrice
It used to be known for all those worker uprisings, but now it was becoming more like a symbol of traditional craftsmanship.
Présentateur
Right. Even though that way of life was fading away.
Présentatrice
Exactly. It’s kind of sad in a way.
Présentateur
Yeah, it is. So as we wrap up this look at Claude Joseph Barnett and the Lyon silk industry, what do you think his legacy is?
Présentatrice
Well, he was definitely a smart businessman. He survived all those uprisings and those economic changes.
Présentateur
He even started those bonus systems to encourage quality.
Présentatrice
Right. He was always adapting. But what about his relationship with his workers?
Présentateur
Yeah, like, did he actually care about them?
Présentatrice
Well. The source tells us really interesting story about this workshop master named Gippet.
Présentateur
Gippet.
Présentatrice
Yeah, he worked for Bonnet for over 20 years.
Présentateur
Oh, it’s a long time.
Présentatrice
It is. And it’s like we get this close up view of on worker’s life like we learned about his family, his living conditions, his finances.
Présentateur
O it’s like a mini deep dive within our deep dives.
Présentatrice
Exactly. And it also highlights the hierarchy within the silk industry. Like Gippet was obviously skilled.
Présentateur
Yeah.
Présentatrice
He was successful, but he wasn’t wealthy like bonnet or even the company clerks.
Présentateur
Oh wow. So there were levels even within the working class.
Présentatrice
Definitely it makes you wonder what Gippet thought of Bonnet.
Présentateur
Yeah, like, did he respect him?
Présentatrice
Right. Or was it just a purely business relationship?
Présentateur
It’s hard to know.
Présentatrice
Well, there is this one detail that I find really fascinating.
Présentateur
What’s that?
Présentatrice
After Bonnet died, Gippet and nine other workshop masters got together. And they paid to have a bust of Bonnet made.
Présentateur
Wow. So they honored him.
Présentatrice
They did. Which suggests some level of respect, maybe even admiration.
Présentateur
That’s really interesting.
Présentatrice
And remember, this wasn’t something Bonnet’s family or the company organized.
Présentateur
So it was genuine.
Présentatrice
Yeah, it came from the workers themselves.
Présentateur
Wow, so that adds another layer to this whole Bonnet legacy thing.
Présentatrice
Totally. But at the same time, Bonnet wasn’t exactly this revolutionary social reformer. He was involved in those mutual aid societies. [Note : ce point est confus] He did some charitable work, but he also benefited from a system that exploited workers.
Présentateur
That’s true.
Présentatrice
It’s like he was both part of the problem and part of the solution.
Présentateur
Yeah, it’s complicated.
Présentatrice
It always. You know, people are complex, can have conflicting beliefs and do things that seem contradictory.
Présentateur
Definitely, especially when you’re looking back at historical figures.
Présentatrice
Exactly. It’s never black and white.
Présentateur
It’s like trying to put together a puzzle with missing pieces.
Présentatrice
Yeah, you get the general idea, but there are always gonna be gaps.
Présentateur
So we end up with this kind of messy picture of Claude Joseph Bonnet.
Présentatrice
Right.
Présentateur
He was innovative, pragmatic, even a bit paternalistic, like he was just trying to navigate this crazy, changing world.
Présentatrice
Yeah. And sometimes he made good choices.
Présentateur
And sometimes not so good.
Présentatrice
Exactly. But that’s what makes history so interesting.
Présentateur
Yeah, it’s like you can’t just put people in boxes, you know?
Présentatrice
Yeah.
Présentateur
Especially we were talking about someone from so long ago.
Présentatrice
Right, like we were. He did some good things, some not so good things.
Présentateur
It’s all part of the story.
Présentatrice
Exactly. And you know what really struck me about this whole deep dive? That. How relevant it feels today.
Présentateur
Right.
Présentatrice
Yeah, like we’re still dealing with a lot of the same issues.
Présentateur
Right. Like what?
Présentatrice
Well, think about it. We’ve got globalization.
Présentateur
Yeah.
Présentatrice
People are still fighting for fair wages and working conditions, and there’s always that tension between keeping traditions alive and embracing new technology and progress.
Présentateur
Hmm. Like history is repeating itself in a way.
Présentatrice
Yeah, but it’s not just about the problems, OK? Also, about those human emotions and desires.
Présentateur
What do you mean?
Présentatrice
Like. Hope for a better life. The fear of losing what you have, those are things that people have always felt.
Présentateur
Right. I guess that’s what makes history so relatable.
Présentatrice
Exactly. It’s not just about dates and events, it’s about understanding what it means to be human.
Présentateur
Yeah. And how those basic human experiences connect us across time? Time.
Présentatrice
Totally, yeah. Even though we’ve been talking about.
Présentateur
This one guy, Claude-Joseph Bonnett, right.
Présentatrice
Really talking about all of us.
Présentateur
Wow, when you put it that way, it’s kind of mind blowing.
Présentatrice
It. And it’s why I love history so much, yeah.
Présentateur
Yeah, me too. Well, this has been a fascinating deep dive.
Présentatrice
It has and I hope our listeners enjoyed it.
Présentateur
I think they did. We covered a lot of ground.
Présentatrice
We did from worker uprisings to the rise of factories.
Présentateur
Yeah.
Présentatrice
To. Those complicated relationships between employers and workers.
Présentateur
But it feels like we’ve only scratched the surface.
Présentatrice
We have. There’s so much more to learn.
Présentateur
And that’s the exciting part.
Présentatrice
Exactly. History’s like this. Endless Journey of discovery.
Présentateur
So to everyone listening out there, thanks for joining us on this deep dive into the world of lion silk.
Présentatrice
Yeah. And the life of Claude Joseph Bonnet.
Présentateur
We hope it’s made you curious to learn even more.
Présentatrice
And remember, history isn’t just about the past.
Présentateur
It’s about understanding the present and shaping the future.
Présentatrice
Well said.